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October 12, 2007


Mr. Underwood

While one can truly admire your commitment and perseverance, your ablility to be a healthy critic is skewed by a more than obvious Islamophobe stance. The article on thetranslators is not referring to our Home Land, but is a translation of a scholar from the Middle East. It is well known that Webb denounces theocracies [in relation to the USA] and supports inclusion and participation within the confines of US constitutional law.

miss kelly

Mr. Underwood, thanks for the underhanded compliment. I think you're picking nits in saying that the article was translated from a Middle Eastern scholar, and so the desire to establish an islamic state wasn't referring to our homeland. I read no such disclaimer or clarification at the website, which is entirely geared towards Muslims in the West. It's no secret that many Islamists in the U.S. want to do exactly that (establish an Islamic state under shariah law here). It's no secret that it's incumbent upon devout Muslims to do that either.

That specific statement appears to have been removed from the website, oddly enough. I went to find it today and wasn't able to, although it was only yesterday that I cut and pasted it yesterday. Curious. Was it removed by their webmaster?

I find it hard to believe that Mr. Webb to really going to be happy long-term with living under US constitutional law. Our constitution is secular and man-made, not "divine" Islamic shariah law. Given his adherence to Islam, Webb really can't be OK with living under our constitution, unless he considers it temporary. I suspect his intention is to abide by our laws and regs until such time as there are enough Muslims in position of power to change the constitution. That's what the Islamic Revival in the West is all about.

miss kelly

Found that statement, under an entry that's no longer posted at The Translators, from August 31, 2007:

A reader

Miss Kelly,

Look at the subject of the link you posted about the "removed" post from TheTranslators, "The Islamic Worker and Fiqh Part 2 of 4Excerpts from “Tayseer Fiqh il-Ibadat” by [Qadi] Sh. Faysal Mawlawi*".

This is a translation of a Middle Eastern scholar, Sh. Faysal Mawlawi, from his book "Tayseer Fiqh il-Ibadat". He isn't talking about the United States in the book, it is just saying that in general terms. Please do your research before making bogus claims. Thank you.

miss kelly

Raeder, thank you for the clarification. While what you say is technically true, I'm guessing that the "in general terms", many Muslims in the U.S. do share the intent to establish an Islamic state here. I don't see how an American Muslim is supposed to distinguish an Islamic state overseas vs an Islamic state here, since Muslims are all part of the global ummah. Nation-state boundaries mean little in Islamic ideology.

I've seen plenty of writings from Western Muslims who state very forthrightly that they want to establish an Islamic state here. Webb's associates at Zaytuna, for example. This is no secret. I'd find it a little hard to believe Webb doesn't want this. That would be rejecting the traditional Islamic beliefs that he is so fond of invoking. If I'm wrong here, if you can provide a link to an article or audio where Webb states that he is only looking for integration in the existing US government, that he explicitly supports the US consitution, please provide it and I'll post it. Thanks.


I'd question whether there's any meaningful link between Webb and articles on a site he contributes to and this other article on this site.

That said, Miss Kelly's interpretation of the Faysal Mawlawi piece seems completely correct. It's talking about the creation of an Islamic state and the elimination of secular law as universal priorities for Muslims.

A reader

Yes exactly, there is no link between that article and Suhaib Webb for one thing.

Miss kelly, you can place that charge of wanting an Islamic State on any Muslim living in the U.S. claiming since they hold true to the traditional Islamic beliefs, they want to make the U.S. an Islamic State! You provide no evidence at all of Suhaib Webb wanting an Islamic State in the U.S. You have baseless arguments.

You're telling me to provide a link to an article or audio where he says that he wants integration in the existing US government. That's like saying you're guilty until proven innocent. That's quite ridiculous and Islamophobic.

Do I have to go out saying that I love America in order for me to be a patriot? If I don't say "I love America," does that mean I hate it?

Please do something useful with your time.

Thank you very much.

miss kelly

Suhaib Webb is, according to Wiki (in an entry obviously written by a Webb enthuiast) a "frequent contributor" to The Translators. You can see for yourself he's a major contributor there. So I think there IS a connection between him and the website. The website translates classical, traditional Islamic writings, they are extremely conservative. Recent writings concern whether it's allowed for men and women to shake hands, and whether dance is acceptable or forbidden. That entry denigrated Sufis. I can hardly wait for the writings about the role of dhimmis in an Islamic state. It's an Islamist website, it calls for a return to Islamic roots, for an Islamic Revival. These are sugar-coated code words for a supremacist ideology.

Reader, I don't think that all Muslims in the U.S. want an Islamic state. Many came from Islamic countries and they know firsthand how repressive and limited these societies are. (At this point, you can say that there is no REAL Islamic state anywhere, they're all corrupt governments. Like communism, it just hasn't really been given a chance.) But a great many Muslims do want Islam to domiante, they are very vocal about their intent. I call these guys (and ladies) Islamists. And regular Muslims, who want to live with everybody else, who don't think they are superior, who think that the U.S. offers tremendous opportunities and is not fundamentally evil and debased, these Muslim folks CAN'T STAND the Islamists.

A reader

You are using wikipedia as your source, enough said.

And as for men and women shaking hands, it's often believed that Islamically, it's absolutely forbidden for men and women to shake hands, and this "writing" said they can shake hands in certain circumstances, hardly an extremist opinion.

And as for dancing, please go and read that article again. It speaks about using DANCING in worship. Meaning, can dancing be incorporated into worship, which it claims that it can't.

Miss Kelly, I would suggest Tariq Ramadan books to you. Please read his books (namely the three books: "Western Muslims and the future of Islam", "To Be a European Muslim", and "Islam, the West, and the Challenge of Modernity". If you read these books, you will better understand that you can return to the Islamic roots to better serve humanity, especially as U.S. and European citizens.

Hopefully that will clear up your binary view of Islam ("Islamists" vs progressive).

To get a taste of Tariq Ramadan's writings, I'll leave you with this article: http://www.tariqramadan.com/article.php3?id_article=1167&lang=en

Please do let me know what you think of it.

Thank you.

Mr. Underwood

Funny, since the articles on handshaking say that it is permissble. This shows that Mrs. Kelly is not reading but cutting and pasting. Mrs. Kelly what are your thoughts on the evangelicals and the theocratic agenda? What are your thoughts on Rev. Ron Pasley who said, "Lock and load! Man the battle stations! I've come to start a riot!" What are your thoughts on their, very open, agenda and their attempts to destory pluralism. And, more importantly, their attitudes towards Catholics?

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